A Chat With An Old Friend

Guys I'm on cloud nine right now.  I've shaken hands with candidates over the years - even got in a word or two but I took part in a conference call this afternoon that I will never forget.  And the smile on my face...?   It'll last for days.  I'm sure Hubby was wondering what I'd been up to when I walked through the door after work tonight.

This was no ordinary conference call. Even with her busy schedule they were able to fit a call with Hillary and her supporters out here on the blogs.  I've been in on press calls before but as far as I know, this is the only time they've ever put us on with Hillary herself and gang - it was worth the wait!  Now they didn't get the chance to let all of her online volunteers know about it but each one of us represented thousands of folks out here in cyberspace.  We're the people who stand by her no matter what the other team throws at us.

I thought I'd post a bit on what she had to say as a way of passing along her words of thanks to the rest of her supporters out here on the blogs.  She can't thank all of us in person or even on calls like this one, but I can certainly help get her message out to everyone.

I didn't take all that many notes, but Taylor Marsh was smart enough to grab the audio of the call, and she put it up on her website HERE

First and most importantly - this was to say thanks and give us an update as to what's going on with the campaign.  AND to make it crystal clear that she's still out there fighting for the right to represent our party in the general election - to go up against John McCain and win this thing for us so we see a Democrat being sworn in next January.

She started out by telling us how grateful she is for our support on line, and for all of our efforts on her behalf.  She said this is an incredibly important election and that there's so much at stake after 7 and a half years of Bush's presidency.  She said our voices make a real difference.

We engage others here.

We make the case for her here on the blogs.

We help get her message out and none of that is lost on her.

She talked about how she's still out there campaigning in the upcoming states.  She's in Oregon now and was getting ready to take part in a town hall event hosted by KGW Newschannel 8 in Portland, OR.  This was originally presented by KGW as a debate to both Hillary and Obama, but he declined as he has for any recent suggestion of a face to face debate with Hillary.  Hillary - always ready to face off in these events, accepted the invitation and as a result of her readiness to discuss the issues, will have a full hour of air time with undecided voters in Portland.  She seemed to be really looking forward to that event.

She also reminded us of something that's been mentioned a few times here on the blogs, but that we're not seeing all that much of on the teevee, and that's that they've finally acknowledged that - after her BLOWOUT of a win in WV (my word not hers - hey she won by 41% of the vote!) she's retaken the lead in the popular vote.

By some 50,000 votes.

She hopes to finish out the primaries on June 3rd with that lead intact.  I think she'll pull it off too (especially if her supporters get out there and make calls, knock on doors and help get her supporters to the polls).

She said she's determined to continue doing all she can to make sure that the people's wishes are carried out by seating all the delegates from Michigan (my home state) and Florida.  It's hard to believe that the rules trump our long-held dedication to including as many folks in the electoral process as possible.

She also noted that - as of her big win in West Virginia, she's won states that represent 300 electoral votes.  Her opponent has racked up wins in states holding 217 electoral votes, and that his were won in states that are about as red as you can get.  She has a cushion - he has a significant deficit

In other words gang...

IT'S THE  MAP - NOT THE MATH!

We need to focus and ask ourselves one simple question - who is the strongest candidate against John McCain in the fall.  She said that she will win, whereas her opponent could win the fight against McCain.

This next bit is for the rest of you Hillary fans out on the blogs - folks who've taken the heat out here on her behalf.  She said she deeply regrets the insults that we've had to put up with in supporting her - and that she appreciates all our efforts gang.  She said this too shall pass, and noted that it's a perverse form of flattery when they spend that much time and energy trying to tear us down, when what we need to be doing is trying to figure out how to swear in a Democrat on January 20th.

So take heart my friends

Then they took questions from a few of us and in response to one from another blogger (Armando I think) she pointed out that in states where they held caucuses and then primaries, Obama took the states in the caucuses by large margins - and the press and media covered them big-time.  But later when they held primaries in Nebraska and Washington, where she didn't spend a dime or campaign at all, the vote was within 2 or 3 points.  Jeralyn has more info on those primaries HERE.

I was lucky enough to ask a question.  The minute I said "Hi Senator, thank you for taking the time to talk with us today, my name is Alegre..." she seemed to recognize me right off the bat and had a warm "Hello! How are you?" for me as I swung into my comment / question.  

I told her that I'm sure I speak for millions of her supporters when I say that we're in this fight as long as she is, and that I hope she takes this all the way to the convention.  We need to hold a vote so people go on record and tell the world where they stand.

I also told her that Michigan and Florida are a priority for me and my family back in Michigan, and that we're doing all we can to lobby for the seating of ALL of the delegates from those states.  That I'd be there with my two young children, asking the Rules Committee to make sure Grandma's vote is counted and that her voice is heard.

Hillary thanked me for my attention to MI & FL and talked about the importance of making sure everyone's voice is heard.  Gang it was as if we were just chatting away on the phone.  I wasn't the least bit nervous.  I followed up and told her that in the 24 years I've been in DC, and of all the candidates I've volunteered for over the past 35 years, SHE is by far the most inspiring.

I knew there were other folks on the call and that I'd probably rattled on long enough so I didn't say half of the things I wanted to say.  

I was fortunate enough to shake her hand before and you think of all the things you want to say leading up the event - just in case you got the chance.  Like thanking her for all of her hard work over the years on behalf of special needs kids, or for the amazing example she sets for our daughters by shattering that toughest and last glass ceiling.  

Of course when the big moment finally arrives and you're face to face with someone you've admired for years all you can think to say is "hi yeah I'm Alegre and I write stuff about you and your campaign on the blogs" Duhhhh!

Never as eloquent as you want to be right?

So if you're reading this Hillary, please know how much your work on behalf of working families like mine means to me.  That your work on behalf of children with special needs has changed the lives of millions of kids and their families for the better.  And that the example you're setting today - in this fight will change the lives for girls like my daughter for the better - and forever.

Please don't ever let up.  Keep fighting for us and we'll keep fighting for you.  Because I think you understand like no one else just how much we need you in that Oval Office.  You'll do great things once you reach 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.  And we'll do all we can to help you get there.  

By the way gang - if you want to see her win this thing... well you know what to do!



Display:


Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 26)

Wow - just wow! :o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:47:18 PM EST

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

By what metric has she retaken the popular vote lead...?  I'm honestly curious... is this by counting MI solely for her..?  Florida is included, I would assume...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 5)

I think ABC had something up yesterday or the day before.

Anyone got that link?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:54:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 5)

Estimate w/ FL, MI, IA, NV, ME, WA

Obama
17,014,911 (47.7%)

Clinton
16,934,160 (47.5%)

Spread
Obama +80,751    +0.22%

If you're going to count MI and FL in the spirit of not disenfranchising voters, then have the decency to count IA, NV, ME, and WA. Or do they not count?

Source: RCP


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

That makes sense...

By some measures, I heard the caucus votes were not being counted and that MI was only counted for Clinton, so I was curious....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:01:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

IIRC, the caucus votes are counted in states that provided a tally. Not all of them did. I know there is considerable discussion and analysis of this on TalkLeft if you want to know more.


by OtherLisa on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:51:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

4 state totals = big chunk (none / 0)

IA, NV, ME, and WA amount to 27 electoral votes, the same about as FL.  


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:03:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 4)

Does that MI count include 0 for Obama, or does it give him all the Uncommitted votes?

Any popular vote count that pretends that Obama has no supporters in the state of Michigan is automatically bogus.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:19:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree a 100% (2.00 / 4)

but Clinton supporters would have us believe that they care about the voters of MI and FL, it's all about voter disenfranchisement they say... yet in the same breath, they manage to discount the caucus states that didn't report popular vote totals. This to me is the epitome of hypocrisy.  


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:23:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree a 100% (none / 0)

I worry that, this year, of all years, with what just happened in Indiana, people are tossing around the word disenfranchisement without knowing what it actually means.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:25:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree a 100% (2.00 / 1)

It's when you dis some enfras then you enchisement them.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree a 100% (none / 0)

I could go for some enfras this time of night.  It's a shame I don't have any cash...


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree a 100% (none / 0)

You have to pay for your enfras?

LOSER!



McCain
by Black Anus on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:35:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree a 100% (none / 0)

Of course I pay for them.  The guy who sells them to me would go broke if I just stole them from him.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:37:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Voters, Shmoters (none / 0)

Here we have the perfect example of the Obama campaign's commitment to democracy.

***A


by adrienne4dean on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:00:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

THE Complete RCP data (none / 0)

You should present the complete facts.  The sourced data you cite from RCP states the following: ". . . The estimate from these four Caucus states where there are not official popular vote numbers increases Senator Obama's popular vote margin by 110,224. This number would be about 50,000 less if the Washington primary results from February 19th were used instead of the Washington Caucus results."

Adjusting for the fudged ~50k the numbers show:

Obama 16,964,911
Clinton 16,934,160

While Obama still slightly ahead since it's an "estimate", statistically it amounts to little more than a rounding error.


by wasanyonehurt on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE Complete RCP data (none / 0)

1) I trust your ability to click (which you have done). So I hid no sources from you

2) Since Obama leads by what amounts to a "rounding error", let's stop with the "Hillary is leading the popular vote"


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:39:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE Complete RCP data (none / 0)

To a lazy simpleton like me, but maybe not to other lazy simpletons with which your obscurity of the facts may have been overlooked.


by wasanyonehurt on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE Complete RCP data (2.00 / 1)

Seriously, chill. Until you go bother everyone who simply claims that a candidate is leading the popular vote without sources or links, please stop making a big deal out of nothing.

I go watch some TV now. cheers.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:46:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE Complete RCP data (2.00 / 1)

toodle loo!


by wasanyonehurt on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:51:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE Complete RCP data (2.00 / 1)

lol! This was a pretty funny exchange. Mojo'd both.


Everybody loves the Engels. Cotto! Cotto! Cotto! Cotto! Cotto!
by spacemanspiff on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:01:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

Why on earth should he get all the uncommitted voters? Many of these voters would have voted for Edwards or Biden or someone else. Obama voluntarily chose to take his name off the ballot, in part to curry the favor with Iowa caucus voters -- and to that extent, his strategy probably succeeded. But while it may have seemed like a wise move at the time, it turned out to be foolish, just as the Clinton campaign's decision to focus on the big states and not pay sufficient attention to the smaller caucus states turned out to be extremely foolish. And just as Hillary has to live with her mistakes, Obama should have to live with his.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

He should have to live with his mistakes; and he does. Our point is that it is patently dishonest of the Hillary Campaign to pretend as though Obama deserves to have no support from Michigan.

Not that it matters since the popular vote DOES NOT MATTER.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 4)

A poster on TPM made the good analogy: adding popular votes for all primaries and caucuses without adjustment is like adding fractions by blithely summing both numerators and denominators.  It just doesn't work.

In the nomination contest, some states have primaries open to all voters; some states only allow  those who register as Democrats 60 days in advance; and some only allow those who voted Democratic in the last election.  Then the caucus states: some report their counts and some don't.  And what about the state that had both primaries and a caucus (TX, WA, NE)? Also, how do you handle the reality that fewer voters attend caucuses?  Example: in WA state, 32,000 Dem caucus attendees cast votes, but in the (non-binding) primary 691,000 voted, a ratio of 21.6 to 1 primary to caucus voters.  In Nebraska, the ratio was 2.5 to 1.  (Yes, some of you think caucuses are unfair. Great -- get involved with the DNC and change the rules, but whinging about that now is pointless.)

How in the world do you reconcile all the different methods of selection?  You could add all the primary votes, with an adjustment factor for the number of non-Democratic votes, plus the caucus votes of states that reported times a "participation" factor, plus a historical figure for the caucuses that didn't vote.  Gets pretty complicated, eh? And just like now, you'd get a hundred different counts, each depending on the assumptions and prejudices of the compiler.

But guess what?  You don't have to construct a complicated formula to tally popular votes! It's already been done -- that's what delegates are for!  Delegates are the common denominator used to normalize the vote counts between different states and territories.  Read that sentence again.  And again.

The delegate system was designed so that states had the latitude to settle upon a candidate using their own method, based on preference or history, and still have the national party be able to agree on a final, unambiguous tally.  The delegate allocations establish an "exchange rate" between the different jurisdictions.  By that analogy, anyone using popular votes to compare the WA and CA results is asking you to trade Yen and Euros on a 1:1 basis -- don't do it! (Unless you hold the Yen....)


by Twin Planets on Sat May 17, 2008 at 10:44:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You Will Notice (1.66 / 3)

at this point that the diarist will not engage this conversation further.  She will merrily tell you that Clinton leads in the popular vote, but methodology is beyond her.  

After all, she's just gathering talking points from the Clinton campaign.


by deminva on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:58:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 8)

Counts FL and MI for Clinton without giving any MI votes to Obama.

Basically, it's the most absurd metric possible, and  I'm not sure how Clinton and her supporters can push it while keeping a straight face.

I mean, Clinton herself said that Michigan would not matter before the vote, and now, with the way she's counting it, the popular vote margin from MI "counts" for more than twice her "giant" margin in Pennsylvania.

Give me a break, please.


by gcensr on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:00:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

I'm from Michigan and ALL the word coming down the pipeline is that there is NO way she gets her optimal Michigan results, none at all. They are going to adjust for Barack not being on the ballot.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:06:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 5)

A friend and neighbor of mine switched from Clinton to Obama after he heard her talking on NPR about MI, saying that the election was perfectly fair even though Obama's name was not on the ballot. His wife was already an Obama supporter, but this was what moved him from Clinton. It was so outrageous, so disingenuous, so undemocratic -- and said in that clam tone as if it actually made sense.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:18:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

I heard that interview too. I couldn't believe the audacity . . .



McCain
by Black Anus on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:37:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Listen to the entire interview. (1.66 / 3)

All she did was acknowledge her understanding of the DNC ruling at that particular time, and she want on to say that we couldn't just abandon Michigan.  Rules, except for 20C, were used in stripping Michigan of its delegates, and rules are being used now to get them reinstated.

As to popular vote totals, it is indeed unfortunate for Obama that he chose to remove himself from the ballot.  Howard Dean has acknowledged that the raw vote totals count and have always counted.  The DNC had no authority to strip the popular vote totals from the certified elections in MI/FL.

If Obama removing himself from the Michigan ballot could be used to nullify the results of that election, then I suppose Hillary could have pulled herself off the ballot in Illinos - and then we'll throw out all those votes.


I'd rather have a bottle in front of me . . . than a frontal lobotomy
by Benjamin3 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 10:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

it is indeed unfortunate (1.50 / 4)

"it is indeed unfortunate for Obama that he chose to remove himself from the ballot."

And, sharing in the spirit of your non-condescendingly conciliatory tone, I would like to reach across her supporters and say that it is indeed unfortunate that we are being subjected to such transparently specious contrivances as 'popular vote' totals which are sold as if they were real while they barely work in Hillary's favor when they are cooked, bent, scrambled, twisted, and doctored.

Unfortunate indeed.  


by xdem on Sat May 17, 2008 at 10:45:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I troll-rated you (1.50 / 2)

For blatant dishonesty, Hillary Clinton-like spin and disingenuousness.

You know damn well that Barack Obama did not remove his name from the ballot in order to render the results of MI invalid you liar. If he had not removed his name he likley would have gotten about 50% of the vote.


by Deano963 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:35:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't say he (2.00 / 1)

removed his name for that purpose, but apparently his supporters feel that it was the effect is.


I'd rather have a bottle in front of me . . . than a frontal lobotomy
by Benjamin3 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

... without giving any MI votes to Obamam?

WTF are you talking about?  Hillary's always said he should get the uncom. votes.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:37:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

You sure she has ALWAYS said that?


Everybody loves the Engels. Cotto! Cotto! Cotto! Cotto! Cotto!
by spacemanspiff on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:40:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

Then it should be very easy for you to find a link to that effect.

It should also be very easy for you to determine whether or not the RCP vote counts include uncommitted votes for Obama, and if not, to add them in and be honest about what that new total is.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:51:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

That is simply not true.


by interestedbystander on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 2)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/democratic_vote_count.htm l

Take a look there and explain to me where her +50k is coming from. Keep in mind RCP's "with FL & MI" gives 0 to Obama for the uncommitted.

So Hillary is only ahead at all if:

(1) You count MI/FL but don't count uncommitted
(2) You don't add in estimates for IA/NV/ME/WA


by mattw on Sat May 17, 2008 at 10:50:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

Uh oh, this might be where you realize that the complete trust you've been putting in your candidate might be misplaced  :-/


by randomscientist on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

"She also reminded us of something that's been mentioned a few times here on the blogs, but that we're not seeing all that much of on the teevee, and that's that they've finally acknowledged that - after her BLOWOUT of a win in WV (my word not hers - hey she won by 41% of the vote!) she's retaken the lead in the popular vote.

By some 50,000 votes."

Look at RCP: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/democratic_vote_count.htm l

The metric you are purporting gives no votes to Obama in Michigan (it also doesn't include the totals from 4 states, but that will resolve itself on its own).

Now that you realize this, retract this popular vote argument (as she won't win the popular vote without treating MI in this manner) and find some other way of spinning away Obama's entirely legitimate win.


by gcensr on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:57:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Howard Dean has already acknowledged (none / 0)

that the raw vote totals from MI/FL do indeed count.  In fact, they have "always" counted since the DNC ruling had to do with stripping these states of delegates only.  The DNC had no authority to strip these states of their pouplar votes.  You can't turn 2.3 million voters into ghosts.  It was indeed a very bad decision for Obama to remove himself from the ballot, against the advice of many of his advisors.


I'd rather have a bottle in front of me . . . than a frontal lobotomy
by Benjamin3 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:58:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (1.66 / 3)

There is a special place in hell for women who do not help other women.

~Madeleine K. Albright


Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:28:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 2)

So, women should all support Liddy Dole for her reelection bid in North Carolina, even if they are Democrats...?

I'm sorry but that line of thinking is f.o.s.  You support the candidate that most reflects your positions on issues... regardless of identity politics.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:34:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 2)

I'm in North Carolina and am supporting Kay Hagen who I predict will beat Dole.  And I totally support Hillary with my time, effort and money.  Albright said "help". she said nothing about voting for a woman only because you're a woman.


by Tolstoy on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:53:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

re-read the quote... apparently, we should be helping Liddy Dole and other female Repubs as well, because they are female.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 11:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

Nonsense.


by Tolstoy on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 1)

"You support the candidate that most reflects your positions on issues... regardless of identity politics."

While I agree with you it's funny that you would say this since your candidate has benefited greatly from identity politics.


by JustJennifer on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:01:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

my candidate is the Democrat... actually ANY and ALL of the Democrats...

And to say Hillary has NOT benefited from identity politics is beyond laughable....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:03:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 2)

Condoleeza Rice, Kay Baily Hutchison, Olympia Snowe, Margaret Thatcher, Elizabeth Dole, etc. etc.  

I think there may be a special place in hell for women who do not help other people, and part of that is electing a candidate who you think will do the most good in the world, not just one of your own gender.


by mady on Sat May 17, 2008 at 10:24:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (none / 0)

"I choose my candidate by looking in his/her pants."

This is also how I choose my doctor, dentist, and plumber.

Come on, people!


Donate to Hillary now!
by username6 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:19:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 0)

Madeleine Albright was another Democratic cheerleader for Bush's war, wasn't she?

I'd be very careful about talking about "special places in hell", were I her.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 3)

Thanks alegre for sharing this!


by durendal on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:37:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (1.66 / 3)

Yes I listened to the conference call over at TM----she was great!  And so were you!   I can imagine how exciting it must to actually get to share your thoughts with her.  I am very happy for you!   Also she did make a very strong case for her continuing her candidacy,  so I am convinced that we can still pull it off.  


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 11:46:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She dosen't lead in popular vote. (1.50 / 2)

Sorry to break it to you - but she does not have the lead in the popular vote. Contests where Barack Obama's name was not even on the ballot do not count. Caucus states DO count. Only people as deluded and idiotic as Hillary Clinton could believe something so stupid.


by Deano963 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think I feel another donation (2.00 / 8)

coming up!!!

Rise.  Hillary.  Rise!


by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:49:26 PM EST

Re: I think I feel another donation (2.00 / 6)

ALL RIGHT!!!!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:50:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And I think I feel...... (1.85 / 7)

My supper coming up!!!

Down.  Hot Pockets.  Down!


by emptythreatsfarm on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:02:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

BO supporters do seem to vomit... (2.00 / 4)

a lot.

Drink a glass of milk and call your doctor.


by CoyoteCreek on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:16:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO supporters do seem to vomit... (2.00 / 1)

Milk is quite possibly the worst thing you can do for an upset stomach, just so we are clear....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:20:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's a catalyst for disaster.... (1.00 / 1)

Chasing down Hot Pockets with a big glass of milk?

I'm nauseous, not suicidal.

How are the preparations for the protest marches going?  Hope those primers are still good after being buried in the yard.

Moisture is tough on primers.


by emptythreatsfarm on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:21:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You must have been drinking with... (2.00 / 1)

those hot pockets:

"How are the preparations for the protest marches going?  Hope those primers are still good after being buried in the yard.

Moisture is tough on primers."

????


by CoyoteCreek on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow. You make lots of comments - here it is (none / 0)

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/30/1 1141/2644/4#4


by emptythreatsfarm on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:34:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But you were the one talking about guns and (none / 0)

ammo....not me.  I said:

"The way Americans always have....

through process, through debate, through negotiation and, sometimes, compromise, with actual resistance only as a last resort.

BUT, you see, I expect the same from my fellow Americans.  That includes Sharpton and Brazile and their "friends"."

So I was wright...you were drinking something funny last night with your Hot Pockets.


by CoyoteCreek on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:44:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

backtracking.... (none / 0)

It was a cut little turnaround comment to try and hide the meaning of your first.

If you'll look at the other responses besides mine, I think its pretty clear that several of us caught your original drift.

Don't you hate it when that happens?


by emptythreatsfarm on Sat May 17, 2008 at 11:41:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Someone please call the resident actuary! (none / 0)

Also, could someone give architek a jingle and find out of Hot-Pocket-Belly is covered by Obama's health care plan.

Are Hot-Pocket-Eaters the 15 million Americans that are going to be abandoned that architek is advocating for?


by emptythreatsfarm on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:24:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It seems time for you to go to bed. (none / 0)


by CoyoteCreek on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And I think I feel...... (none / 0)

That just cracked me up.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think I feel another donation (none / 0)

Save it.  She's still got $100 million or so of her own money left.


Donate to Hillary now!
by username6 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (1.75 / 8)

She said this too shall pass, and noted that it's a perverse form of flattery when they spend that much time and energy trying to tear us down, when what we need to be doing is trying to figure out how to swear in a Democrat on January 20th.

Why even include this when you don't actually believe it?


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:49:37 PM EST

thanks (1.33 / 3)

for.... hmmm...

...I guess I was wrong.

Retract that thanks.


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:55:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks (2.00 / 2)

they can't help it.  LOL.


by JoeySky18 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks (2.00 / 1)

she has REPEATEDLY said that Obama won't win, a defeatist and anti-democratic stand that clearly belies she will NOT do as Hillary asks and indeed BEGS her supporters.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:05:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks (2.00 / 1)

Hillary's supporters want to win the General, silly.

That's why we support Hillary!


by bellarose on Sat May 17, 2008 at 11:54:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks (none / 0)

Gravel '08, baby!


Donate to Hillary now!
by username6 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks (2.00 / 2)

I would like to know why you troll-rated the comment...  Alegre did too...

But we have seen time and again on this site people saying that the only electable Democrat is Hillary... well, Hillary seems to want a Democrat elected regardless... she would prefer it to be her, of course, but she wants a Democrat nonetheless... but some of her vocal supporters on this site do not agree...

The comment was directed to that, so I guess I do not understand the troll-rate, unless it is TR as disagreement...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:10:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks (none / 0)

Same goes to Soitgoes who also TR'd the comment...

What gives people...?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:27:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks (none / 0)

On one hand, they want the right to complain all they want about how Barack is unelectable and they'll never vote for him - on the other hand, if called on it, they want no part in the discussion. They know if they did, they'd come out looking like fools.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:28:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Did she lie to your face? (none / 0)

... Like she did to mine, and to the 4,000 members of the grassroots organization I represented, on a crucial interstate environmental issue?

That's my direct experience of Hillary Clinton: Dissembler. Opportunist. Triangulator. Those are the polite versions of my assessment of her character.

I say this as someone who enthusiastically volunteered for her first Senate campaign and met her face-to-face three times.


by Hudson on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did she lie to your face? (none / 0)

What was this lie that she told?


by Mayor McCheese on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 8)

thank you for continuing to create these positive diaries!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:49:53 PM EST

Re: A Chat With An Old Friend (2.00 / 4)

My pleasure CanadianGal. :o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:32:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes we do know what to do! Build a Time Machine (none / 0)


Then we can take Hillary back to 2002 when she lost the presidential nomination, and she can take back her cynical vote for the War in Iraq.

McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.
by Lefty Coaster on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:39:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Alegre, this one's for you! (1.20 / 10)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:51:06 PM EST

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

I'm not a big fan of cover tunes, but this one was pretty cool....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:52:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

have you seen the movie? (none / 0)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:54:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: have you seen the movie? (none / 0)

ummm... yes.... a bit of a chick flick, but gotta love Heath Ledger... rest his soul....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

guys like it too (none / 0)

Guys dig tough chicks and tom boys.  For example, that's one reason why Tina Fey is so popular.

the movie was very enjoyable, it was a reverse make over flick.  Instead of the typical "Pygmalion" fare, she kept her identity and in turn, made her suitor a better person.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:07:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: guys like it too (none / 0)

true... but it was still a chick flick...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:11:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"chick flick"? (none / 0)

Is there such a thing as a "chick flick"?

There are two possible categories of sexism:

  1. discrimination (less pay, less opportunities, etc.)
  2. stereotyping

Stereotyping is very tricky. Statistically men like sports more than women and women like home decoration more than men. Supposedly men like action movies more and women like relationship-centric movies more. And so on. And then there's the Mars vs. Venus book and all of its ideas.

SERIOUS QUESTION: Are all of the above examples sexist or are some (non-physical) distinctions between the sexes legitimate?

I really am serious about this. Look - to rid ourselves of the isms, we have to retrain ourselves. When I grew up, everyone thought that homosexuality was a horrible perversion. I was terrified to let myself even think about it lest I discover that I might have gay tendencies - a fate worse than death. Now, years later - six seasons of Six Feet Under later - I have thoroughly retrained myself. I'm perfectly comfortable around gay people - I laugh at people who aren't and I could care less if I'm any percentage gay or bi. That was a long process. The sexism thing is much more insidious.

Are there, or aren't there, non-"sexist" generalizations that can be made about the differences in the ways men and women think, feel and perceive things?


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:07:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

not sure (2.00 / 2)

why you posted this... really. See what it SAYS at the beginning?!

Plus... the original is MUCH better!


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:57:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not sure (none / 0)

Actually, I like this cover pretty well. That's why I used that video, it's the only coherent one with the cover in it.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:59:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll go with the Shakespeare version every time nt (none / 0)


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:12:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (2.00 / 2)

"10 Things I hate about you"????????

Whatever happened to Obama supporters trying to make peace with Clinton supporters?!

I hope your comment is hidden, and you are escorted out of this site.  


by izarradar on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:11:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

ummmm... wow....  what do you have against Cheap Trick covers...?  Or are you just looking for a reason to be outraged this evening...?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

Oh, geez, gimme a break. It was about the song, not about the video. I should have just used the Cheap Trick version. But 0-rate away, I suppose, whatever makes you feel better.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:13:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (2.00 / 1)

What about the song made it for Alegre?  You didn't just pick it out of the blue, and if you didn't think the title would be taken the way it is being taken, what were you thinking? I can't believe that what it says never occured to you when you posted.


by Scotch on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:21:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

The song was certainly intended for a reason; I'll let you decide why that was. But the Cheap Trick video I posted just now is lame, and I like the cover version; also, since it's sung by a female.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:22:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Can't see the forest (2.00 / 1)

for the trees.  Sad.


by izarradar on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:40:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't see the forest (none / 0)

It's okay, I forgive you


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:44:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Shoe's on the other foot (2.00 / 1)

pal.


by izarradar on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:52:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shoe's on the other foot (none / 0)

Nah. Just like I know you wouldn't overreact in an attempt to look for something to be offended by.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:54:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Never (2.00 / 1)

I'm cool.


by izarradar on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:07:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

I'll uprate you for it...  I actually got it...

Geez people...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:22:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

Escorted out?

How exactly would that work?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:21:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Alright, Izzy, this one's for you (none / 0)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:21:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You sweet talker, you. (2.00 / 1)

Won't work---I'm still for Hill.


by izarradar on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:53:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You sweet talker, you. (none / 0)

No problem, be for her all you want to. Never stop. Just don't put it above all else.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:56:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Same to you (2.00 / 1)

good buddy.


by izarradar on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:06:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

If "10 things I hate about you isn't an attack", I don't know what is.

What is your problem?


by Scotch on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:15:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

What's your problem...?  

Cheap Trick kicked some very serious butt in their day and this is a pretty good cover of one of their best tunes...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:23:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (none / 0)

I'm sorry a chick flick that contained a cover of Cheap Trick's excellent song offends your sensibilities. Take off the kid gloves and try to enjoy the snark.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:27:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (2.00 / 2)

Didn't see the movie but I think I get it from what some of the others here have said about it.

Thanks - I think.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre, this one's for you! (2.00 / 1)

lol, heh, it was an offhanded compliment with some snarky goodness. Glad to see you caught it.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:34:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow - what a smokin' picture (2.00 / 2)

She even looks better in person.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:51:51 PM EST